Just how big are the big climbs

Hi, just wondering if anyone has any stats on any of
the big TDF climbs  like L'Alpe d' Huez.  Just how much
elevation gain in how many miles, etc.  I think it would be
interesting to compare to the local climbs we do.

thanks for any info, mike

For some of the most well-known climbs:

L'Alpe d'Huez (1860 m): 1090 m/3580 ft of elevation gain in 13,8 km/8,6 mi,
maximum gradient 11-12% over short stretches.

Mont Ventoux (1909, from Bedoin): 1609 m/5280 ft of elevation gain in 21,5 km/13,4
mi, maximum gradient 11-12% over short stretches.

Tourmalet (2115 m, from the northwestern side(?)): 1315 m of elevation gain in
17,5 km/10,9 mi, max gradient ca. 13%

Col de la Madeleine (2000 m, from the south): 1600 m/5250 ft of elevation gain in
20,5 km/12,75 mi, maximum gradient around 10%

Some of Europe's absolutely largest climbs:

Monte Zoncolan (1730 m, from Ovaro): 1220 m/4000 ft of elevation gain in 10,2 km/
6,3 mi, maximum gradient 23%, most notably this climb has a 4 mile stretch at
an average gradient of 15%.

Grosser Speikkogel (2120 m): 1690 m/5550 ft of vertical gain in 15 km/9,3 mi
(average gradient =11%), maximum 17%.

(reputedly:) Prato Maslino (1630): 1360 m/4462 ft of elevation gain in 9,5 km/5,9 mi,
average gradient 14,4%, maximum >20%.

Edelweiss-Spitze (2571 m): 1715 m/5630 ft of vertical gain in 18,6 km/11,55 mi, 
maximum gradient 14%.

Roque de los Muchachos (2410 m): 2090 m/6860 ft of elevation gain in 24,0 km/14,9 mi,
average gradient 8,7%

Punta Veleno (1150 m): 1100 m/3610 ft in 10,4 km/6,45 mi, maximum gradient 20%.
Most notably, this climb averages almost 16% (15,8) over a section that is as long
as 4 km/2,5 miles.

One could append dozens of comparable climbs to the end of this list. 
To my knowledge something like 90% of these super-climbs are situated in
Italy and Austria.


Roy Ellefsen

Two questions on these.  First, what sort of elevations are they reaching on
these climbs relative to sea level?  I'm curious how thin the air is getting
at the top of the climbs.  Second, on the list of Europe's absolutely
largest climbs you gave, are any or all of these included in any races?  You
mention most of them are in Italy or Austria so presumably they haven't been
in the TDF before, but maybe the Giro?

- George Strain

Two things:

1)  Thin air?  Keep in mind ALL these elevations--yes, even the highest Alp
passes--are lower than, for instance, the Rockies.

2) Let's hear it for the Mortirolo.

You can find these at the tour site (http://www.letour.com/1999/us/) by
clicking on 'Profile & difficulties'. You will get length and average
climbing percentage for all cols in the stage.

L'Alpe d'Huez is 13.8 km climbing at 7.9% grade, giving a height
difference of 1090 meters (+/- 10 meters). The longest climb is the Col
de la Croix de Fer, 28.6 km at 5.2% (~1490 m), the highest the Col du
Mont-Cenis (24.7 at 6.3%, 1556m).

Of all the HC-climbs L'Alpe d'Huez has the lowest height difference, but
the steepest climb. Of all climbs, it is the second steepest, after the
Col de Val de Louron-Azet (1st category, 7.5 km at 8.4%, 630 m) unless
we count in the Cote du Fosse in the prologue (8.1% but only 700m long,
making 57m height differenc).

The least impressive of the Tour cols is probably the Cote de
Beaumont-la-Ronce, 1.1 km climbing at 3.2%. The only reason it is a 4th
category col is probably that they wanted at least one in each stage
(the Futuroscope TT is an exception), and there was nothing better in
stage 4.


-- 
Andre Engels, engels@win.tue.nl, ICQ #6260644

I think the Gamonal (to be ridden for the first time in this year's Vuelta
Espana), is the most brutal climb yet included in a major tour. The total
elevation gain is just under 1400m (from 184m to 1570m), the average
gradient over the whole 17km is 8.2% and over the last 12.5km is just over
10%. The steepest section is 22%, and there is an entire kilometre near the
top which averages 17.5%. The last seven km all average substantially
steeper than 10% (13.7%, 12.2%, 11.3%, 13.8%, 17.5%, 13.1%, 11%).

I read an interview with Fernando Escartin in one of the English cycling
magazines. He rode up it with 26 tooth large rear cog, and said afterwards
that a 30 would have been a lot better.

Nick

David Duffield (Eurosport) said that Escartin had to stop for a while during
the climb - it was THAT tough. Admittedly he was wrongly geared and not in
form, but if a climber like Fernando has to stop on a training ride, imagine
what it will be like for the big guys in The Bus at the back of the race
during the Vuelta - Hell on Earth I'd be willing to guess.

George.

There's a description (in Spanish) of a group ride to the summit of the
Gamonal


There are some good pictures there as well. It is rare that a picture is
able to give an indication of the steepness of a climb, but I believe
the following one is a good example (from the next to last kilometer at
18%,


In fact, all riders who have climbed both the Gamonal and
the Mortirolo, state that the Gamonal is the hardest of the two.
The two climbs seem to be fairly identical in length and average
steepness,
with the Gamonal winning because of a 1 km section at 18%, in which is
included
a 300m section at 22%, whereas the Mortirolo's steepest kilometer is 
a mere 14-15% (only some sections at 18%). 

        

Is the Gamonal, then, the hardest climb ever to have been included in a major Tour?
Based on rider statements, yes, at least if we restrict ourselves to the last 20-30 years.
I guess many climbs had fairly uneven gradients and lousy surfaces back in the good olden days.
And then there's the Blockhaus climb, which was included a few times in the Giro in the
60-70s era: 2000 meters of altitude gain in 33 kilometers, sections that are as steep as 20%,
10 km at 10% in the middle of the almost dead straight, shadow-less climb (I'm taking this from
a written description!). Ridden in one of the *first* stages of the 1972 Giro it caused Merckx to
collapse: The feather-weight climber Fuente was in fact able to take two minutes out of him in the
final five kilometers (they stopped 7 kilometers below the summit) and many well-known riders were
excluded from the race because they didn't make the time limit. Of course, the Gamonal is a very
special case. Were we to talk about the hardest all-round climb, raced or not, I guess we could
add a good few that are harder.
Roy Ellefsen

Yes, that would have been really, really cool. But be aware that there doesn't
seem to be any other Gamonals in Spain and the nine volumes of the 'Atlas des Cols'
series doesn't list one French climb that average as much as or more than 10% for 10 km, or 15% 
for 6-7 km for that matter. These sorts of climbs can only be sought in Austria/Italy
and possibly in Switzerland. 10% for 10 km with maxima at 15-20% are really rather
common (I estimate their number to around 30-40 in the Alps alone).

An interesting fact is that in the lower Valtellina (basically a few kms downstream 
of the Mortirolo) there seem to be at least three climbs (cul-de-sacs) that climb
as much as 1000 m in 7-8 kilometers (add that to the Mortirolo, Stelvio and Gavia)
plus several more that are 9-9,5% for 12-14 kilometers (San Marco, Preda Rossa etc.)

Basically, I don't believe any really, really evil climbs will ever be included
in the major Tours anymore: Usually they don't leave sufficient room on the
summit to stage a finish there, or they are located to far from the major tourist
areas (as in Italy, where Friuli has some monster climbs which are always neglected
by the Giro in favour of the Dolomites which are located only slighty farther west).
As for France, monsieur Leblanc has publicly admitted that there are a
lot of climbs they would like to include in the Tour, but that they can't do it
because these climbs are too narrow or too twisty or too steep for the Tour caravan
to be taken across them.

I rode up Spring Mountain Road (out of St. Helena in Napa Valley)
last Saturday with my skinny mtn goat team-mate Stoley.

The intense part is an elevation gain of 1140 feet
over 1.8 miles.  That calculates to exactly 12%.

It is tough!!

Overall the climb is 1700 feet over 4.25 miles.
I have re-checked this on the USGS Topo maps.


-- 
Ken Papai           Marin County, California  

There are some hard climbs in the Bay Area (Spring Mt Road, 
Bolhman On-Orbit, etc) but they really don't compare with
the Alps.  I just did the Mortirolo, Stelvio, Gavia, 
Timmelsjoch, Aprica and a 'no-name' climb out of Grossio
this past long weekend and you simply can't compare anything
in the bay area to them.  The Italian climbs are either way
longer or way steeper (or both):


			Distance	Elevation Gained
Spring Mt. Road		~5 Miles	1700 ft
Bohlman On Orbit	4.39 Miles	2100 ft
Mortirolo		7.38 Miles	4358 ft
Stelvio (from Prato)	16.7 Miles	6058 ft
Stelvio (from Bormio)   13 Miles	5119 ft
Mt. Hamilton (Calif)	19 Miles	4300 ft

Not even doing it in race conditions, the Mortirolo was by
far the hardest climb I've ever done (and I've done quite
a few either racing or for 'fun').  I can't even fathom
how the professionals can race up that mountain.

PDD

On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:05:46 +0100, Paul Debacker - Sun UK
<pauldeb@riverwhy.uk> wrote:

>There are some hard climbs in the Bay Area (Spring Mt Road, 
>Bolhman On-Orbit, etc) but they really don't compare with

How about Marin Avenue in Berkeley? Any one know the numbers on it?

Hajaj®

hajaj@earthling.net

Hajaj <hajaj@earthling.net> wrote:
: How about Marin Avenue in Berkeley? Any one know the numbers on it?

Yeah, 666.  Straight from the devil's butt.  It's pure EVIL.

-- 
Kevin Metcalfe
metcalfe@ecis.com
Pleasant Hill, CA

How 'bout Sonora Pass?  The CalTrans signs claim a 26% grade on the west
side and 24% on the east...it's a pretty unbelievable climb, but
spectacularly beautiful.  Add the fact that it peaks at 9940 feet...

Obviously the 26% and 24% are peak grade figures; it averages quite a bit
less.  Doesn't feel like it though!

--Mike--
Chain Reaction Bicycles

Hi everybody,

I am the author of a web site about cycling in Asturias. Its contains
are:

- Profiles of the most important climbs in Asturias (this is the place
more visited in my site). I'm not very sure whether is wright using
profile to express what I mean in english. What I mean is a graphic wich
shows the altitude against the length of a climb.

- Routes in Asturias

- Profesional riders from Asturias

- Profesional races in Asturias

- News about cycling in Asturias

- Links about Cycling

I hope you enjoy my site

Bye,
Isidro

The best cycling I have ever done was in Asturias. Covadonga is the hardest
climb I've ever been up and the Naranco was good, except I kept getting lost
on my way into and out of Oviedo.


Mark

I thought so too, going up it with full touring gear (because I'm tough, 
right ?) and met an Italian at the refuge who'd given up on it and gone 
round the mountains and took his bike up in the cable car.

Until I went up the south side of Sierra Nevada. My proudest boast. :)

patrick.

I left my touring gear in the Pension in Cangas de Onís. I was there in
April '97. The road after the big switchback after the monastery was loose
fine gravel for a good few kilometres. I didn't expect that and didn't
notice it in the Vuelta last year. Also Indurain was painted on the road,
but of course in the previous Vuelta he'd given up just after the descent of
the Fito before Arriondas.

I had 42x24 by the way! Cause I'm tough n' all!

I was there in 1992, and don't remember the road surface. It was just after the Vuelta 
though, and the messages were mainly for Delgado. Some of them had paintings of 
hypodermics, and one was an arrow labelled 'Perico' which directed him off the road, at 
the same hairpin just after the monastery.

> I had 42x24 by the way! Cause I'm tough n' all!
> >Until I went up the south side of Sierra Nevada. My proudest boast. :)> 
> Smart arse.

More like lard arse. I couldn't do those climbs these days, even with my 28x28 ! :(

The Picos & the Sierra Nevada - fantastic cycling country.

I've never been to Spain, but I've seen a profile of the climb to the
Lagos di Covadonga. It's at

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Ginza/5912/lagos.gif

Asturias is said to have the toughest climbs in Northern (continential) Spain.
According to 'Ciclismo a fondo' the hardest climb in all of Spain is the
Alto de La Gamonal. It's profile is at:

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Ginza/5912/gamonal.gif

It seems that even the Covadonga pales in comparison!
Another killer climb in the Oviedo area is the
Alto de Cobertoria-Gamoniteiro which is 15,9 km at 9,1% with
the last five kilometers at 12%. Pluss of course there's the famous
climb to San Lorenzo (7 km at 11%)  which is profiled at the site made by the
guy who started this tread.

Roy Ellefsen

Hi everybody,

Roy is right when he says the hardest climb in Asturias (even in Spain, even in
Europe) is  La Gamonal. I have never tried it
in bike, but I went there with car and it is a wonderful experience.

Now I am working in Madris and I'm trying to climb Navacerrada and Guadarrama, not
as hard as the climbs in Asturias,
of course.

Bye,
Isidro

Not so fast Isidro! I've seen that a few Spaniards who have done both climbs
consider the Gamonal to be harder than the Mortirolo. They may of course
be perfectly right in this. However, when these same people go on to state
that because of this the Gamonal must be Europe's toughest climb, they make
a mistake. Primarily because few Italians rate the Mortirolo as their toughest
climb. Instead by common admission the hardest Italian climb is the Monte
Zoncolan (1730 m) from Ovaro which is 10,2 km at an average grade of 11,8%
(max 23%). People can get a general idea of the harshness of all three climbs
by glancing at the following online profiles:

Gamonal: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Ginza/5912/gamonal.gif
(Think of the damage this climb would do if included in the Vuelta!)
Mortirolo: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Ginza/5912/mortirol.gif
Monte Zoncolan: No online profile available, but these are it's grades:
550m at 7,6% + 550m at 11,3% + 600m at 6,8% + 500m at 1,0% + 500m at 15,6%
+500m at 13,4% + 600m at 13,8% + 400m at 19,3% + 350m at 19,7% + 250m at 8,8%
+600m at 17,3% + 900m at 13,9% + 400m at 20,5% + 500m at 11,0% + 600m at 14,0%
+ 400m at 12,5% + 400m at 7,5% + 600m at 6,7% + 200m at 10,5% + 650m at 10,6%

Secondly there are climbs outside of the major cycling nations that should
be considered when compiling a list of Europe's hardest, most
notably the climb Berchtesgaden-Obersalzberg-Kehlsteinstraße (because of the
first very steep kilometers) and the Zillertaler Höhenstraße from Ried or
from Aschau.

Roy Ellefsen

I would like to see some facts to back up this claim about Monte Zonclan.
Velo Magazine this month is dedicated to the big European climbs.  They asked
100 pro racers which climb they thought was the hardest they had ridden.
60 (sixty) of the 100 said the Mortirolo and the other 40 said that they
had never ridden the Mortirolo.  So, every European pro who has ridden the
Mortirolo rates it as the toughtest climb they have ridden.

That is a pretty strong evidence to me.

Bruce Hildenbrand

For starters the Velo Magazine article as I've had it refered is
not dedicated simply to the big European climbs, it's dedicated to the
hardest regularly raced climbs.

Secondly I've  already posted detailed gradient information on the Monte
Zoncolan and this shows how it's a little bit steeper than the Mortirolo
over similar distances: Over a six kilometer long stretch it averages 15%,
the last eight kilometers averages 13,5%,
it has 23% maxima and the steepest kilometer is more than 19% as well.

Thirdly it was voted hardest Italian climb by a magazine a few years back,
although at present I can't remember the name of the magazine.
Most importantly however those Italians that call themselves climbing fans
and always are on the lookout for new challenges seem to agree that it's
their hardest climb. Of course a final decision can never be made, but
this is some evidence in favour of the Zoncolan.

Both the Mortirolo and the Monte Zoncolan are, by the way, old military roads
that were built during WWI, a fact that seems to explain their steepness.

Interestingly the Zoncolan was raced last year in the Giro d'Italia femminile,
although included was the less steep eastern ascent which is 8 km at 9% +
3,5 km at 13%. The inevitable Luperini won the stage (I don't think they
went all the way to the top).


Roy Ellefsen